01/24/2005 03:15 PM House LABOR & COMMERCE
| Audio | Topic |
|---|---|
| Start | |
| HB15 | |
| Adjourn |
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
| *+ | HB 15 | TELECONFERENCED | |
ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE
HOUSE LABOR AND COMMERCE STANDING COMMITTEE
January 24, 2005
3:24 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Representative Tom Anderson, Chair
Representative Gabrielle LeDoux
Representative Bob Lynn
Representative David Guttenberg
Representative Norman Rokeberg (via teleconference)
MEMBERS ABSENT
Representative Pete Kott
Representative Harry Crawford
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
HOUSE BILL NO. 15
"An Act relating to seasonal alcoholic beverage licenses; and
providing for an effective date."
PREVIOUS COMMITTEE ACTION
BILL: HB 15
SHORT TITLE: SEASONAL HUNT/FISH LODGE LIQUOR LICENSE
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) MEYER
01/10/05 (H) PREFILE RELEASED 12/30/04
01/10/05 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS
01/10/05 (H) L&C, FIN
01/24/05 (H) L&C AT 3:15 PM CAPITOL 17
WITNESS REGISTER
REPRESENTATIVE KEVIN MEYER
Alaska State Legislature
Juneau, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Presented HB 15 as bill sponsor
DOUG GRIFFIN, Director
Alcohol and Beverage Control Board
Anchorage, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Answered questions pertaining to HB 15
ACTION NARRATIVE
CHAIR TOM ANDERSON called the House Labor and Commerce Standing
Committee meeting to order at 3:24:11 PM. Representatives
Anderson, Rokeberg (via teleconference), LeDoux, Lynn, and
Guttenberg were present at the call to order.
HB 15-SEASONAL HUNT/FISH LODGE LIQUOR LICENSE
CHAIR TOM ANDERSON announced that the only order of business
would be HOUSE BILL NO. 15, "An Act relating to seasonal
alcoholic beverage licenses; and providing for an effective
date."
3:25:04 PM
REPRESENTATIVE KEVIN MEYER, Alaska State Legislature, sponsor of
HB 15, presented a brief overview of the bill, which pertains to
the sale of alcohol in remote lodges. He stated that remote
lodges can either give free alcohol to the guests, have the
guests bring their own alcohol, or charge the guests for the
alcohol, which is currently illegal. He said that the lodge
owners are in a difficult situation because they are trying to
provide alcohol to their guests, but at the same time the
wholesalers want to make sure that these owners are legally
distributing the beverages.
REPRESENTATIVE MEYER explained that under the current system the
lodge owners would have to purchase a full dispensary license
costing $2,500. Lodge owners would be required to pay another
$1,500 to sell off sale alcoholic beverages. He further
explained that HB 15 will create a seasonal alcoholic beverage
license for lodges by combining the two licenses into one,
allowing the lodge to serve the beverages to overnight guests.
The license would be only be good for six months out of a
calendar year. The new license would be much cheaper for the
lodges, and would provide the lodge owners with the additional
revenue raised from charging the guests for beverages.
REPRESENTATIVE MEYER defined a seasonal hunting or fishing lodge
as: "A resort facility that provides lodging, food, and outdoor
hunting or fishing guiding services to its registered overnight
guests that is not directly accessible by automobile." He said
that [his staff] has been in contact with the Alcoholic Beverage
Control Board (ABC), which has suggested some changes to this
definition.
3:29:51 PM
DOUG GRIFFIN, Director, Alcoholic Beverage Control Board
remarked that the board welcomes the bill. He opined that
lodges have fallen between the cracks in the present licensing
scheme in Alaska and that the current licensing process for
lodges is very expensive. He said that one critical,
nonnegotiable part of the bill is the limitation that the
alcohol be served only to overnight guests; if the lodge is near
a village or community, the lodge should not be allowed to serve
liquor to the residents. He explained that by regulation,
liquor and liquor licenses in Alaska are limited by population.
3:33:07 PM
Mr. GRIFFIN continued:
What you may have ... are good fishing areas where you
have a small village which by our population
requirement should only have one liquor license ... of
each type. That doesn't really work for lodges where
you may have several lodges and maybe the first one in
the door gets the only license that's allowed for that
[area] based on the population limitations under AS
04.11.400. So there are some provisions under AS
[04.11.400] that relax population [limitations] for
tourism licenses and ... for public convenience
licenses for restaurants that serve beer and wine....
We think a similar exception needs to be made for
lodges. But again, the reason we feel comfortable
making that exception for population is that we're
focusing on a business that is not serving the
community at large or ... any residents.
3:35:27 PM
MR. GRIFFIN expressed his belief that the bill should provide a
broader definition of a lodge and that the duration of the
licenses should not be limited to a six-month season. He gave
some examples of lodges that may expand operations beyond the
peak summer months. He said, "We suggest that that be expanded
and still provide an option for the seasonal lodge operation ...
which is provided for under AS 04.11.680, where someone can ...
get just a seasonal license good for six months during a twelve
month period and basically pay a half price for the lodge
license."
MR. GRIFFIN suggested that the best way to address [the issue of
lodge alcohol licenses] is to base the license fee on the number
of rooms in the lodge; he suggested a fee of $250 per room for a
full year license and half of that for a seasonal operation.
MR. GRIFFIN, referring to Representative Meyer's definition that
a lodge be inaccessible by automobile, noted that there are some
remote lodges that people can drive to; for example, lodges off
of the Denali Highway or Parks Highway or lodges on the Kenai
that are remote, but accessible by road. He said that it is up
to the legislature to decide how to define that.
3:40:14 PM
CHAIR ANDERSON concurred with Mr. Griffin and said:
At first blush this bill appears ... to be consumer-
protective [in] nature. The caution though is the
notes that you made regarding definition if a lodge
and how detailed we want to be. ... It would be nice
to know if there is a devaluation of current liquor
licenses. For instance, I can think of places that I
have been to ... in rural Alaska ... where there are
quote 'lodges' already existing who have full
dispensary licenses which are worth between $100,
$150,000 where someone can come in and secure one of
these type permits to distribute and sell alcohol and
then maybe cause a problem or ... a devaluation of
those other liquor licenses at nearby lodges or
hotels. And so that definition being secured and
tightened is important, I think, in this legislation,
finding out the effect on other lodges in the state.
...
CHAIR ANDERSON said that he would like to hear what the state
Cabaret Hotel Restaurant and Retailers Association (CHARR) and
the Anchorage Restaurant and Beverage Association (ARBA) think
of the proposed bill.
3:42:40 PM
REPRESENTATIVE LEDOUX asked for the definition of "road system".
She said that the entire island of Kodiak is off the road
system, though there are state roads. She also asked if this
bill expanded the number of people who are able to get lodge
licenses, or if it merely meant that the people who are already
able to get those licenses can get them on a biannual basis.
REPRESENTATIVE MEYER replied that one of the planned amendments
would eliminate the mention of a road system. He deferred the
second question to Mr. Griffin.
MR. GRIFFIN answered that all licenses are currently renewed on
a biannual basis.
REPRESENTATIVE MEYER then clarified that the only difference the
bill would make is to require the lodge to have one seasonal
lodge license instead the currently required two licenses (a
dispensary license and a package license).
REPRESENTATIVE LEDOUX asked if this bill would allow lodges to
have a license even if they did not qualify for a license under
state law in the past.
3:46:35 PM
MR. GRIFFIN answered:
It depends, ... depending on the circumstances. I
don't see this allowing someone to be able to get a
license if they're within the jurisdiction of a dry
village or a damp community that's ... banned sale by
local option. So those people are just still out of
luck ... If there is a population limitation because
there is, say, a community nearby that's not dry or
damp, then with the amendment that I suggested where
they be some type of a population exception made for
... these businesses, then yes, it would allow someone
perhaps under that scenario to get a ... license that
they ... might not be able to get any other type of
liquor license that might be available. ... If we do
some type of a population relief segment then that is
a possibility. ... It sort of depends, depending on
the exact scenario. It might allow someone to get a
license who wouldn't be able to get one now. I think
again the bigger issue is that we've got lodges
operating, dispensing alcohol, either selling it or
putting into a package, giving it away or whatever,
that should ... come under the regulatory framework.
CHAIR ANDERSON asked if non-guests could purchase alcohol at the
lodges under this licensing scheme.
REPRESENTATIVE MEYER reiterated that only guests who stay
overnight at the lodge can drink alcoholic beverages. He
compared this license to a full dispensary license, which would
allow the facility to operate like a bar.
CHAIR ANDERSON asked if this would be like a full liquor license
and include all alcoholic beverages.
REPRESENTATIVE MEYER answered affirmatively.
REPRESENTATIVE LEDOUX asked if this type of license is available
now on an annual basis, or if this doesn't exist at all right
now.
REPRESENTATIVE MEYER stated that it does not exist at the
current time.
CHAIR ANDERSON remarked that should the bill pass, it would
ensure that lodges have been licensed, had a background check by
the ABC board, are in full compliance, and are paying a biannual
fee, and those that are not will either be denied or if they are
selling without the license, would be violating the law.
MR. GRIFFIN agreed and said that under this bill, the lodge
owners who apply for a license would have a criminal background
check, attend alcohol-server training, and "all of those things
which we think is a public safety, welfare benefit to the State
of Alaska."
CHAIR ANDERSON commented that since the ABC has a limited
budget, the most likely way for a lodge owner to be caught would
be if someone else turned him/her in to the authorities.
MR. GRIFFIN remarked that ABC doesn't have to budget to travel
to a lodge to investigate a complaint; however ABC is now part
of the Department of Public Safety and ABC personnel train
troopers and wildlife protection officers, who could in turn
investigate such complaints.
CHAIR ANDERSON asked what happens if a lodge is located in a dry
or damp city that later decides to be wet. He asked, "Does the
community, borough, city, whatever class city it is, do they
have to adopt a provision to allow this or would the statutory
authority preempt that?"
MR. GRIFFIN replied, "We would not see this as countermanding or
overriding any kind of local option.... If they voted to ban
sale ... but maybe allow importation, which is the definition of
a damp community, then we would not see this as ... trumping
that local decision." He said that when a license comes up for
renewal, the local governments have the opportunity to protest
the license if they feel that the licensee is not operation in
the public interest.
REPRESENTATIVE GUTTENBERG commented that it would be awkward if
the guest was allowed to drink alcohol but the guide was not.
He asked for clarification of the difference in enforcement
expenses between a full-time facility that operates year-round
and a seasonal facility.
MR. GRIFFIN answered that the ABC personnel probably won't get
out to the lodges due to high expenses unless a complaint was
filed. He said that ABC would probably rely on a regional
trooper or perhaps even a wildlife protection officer for
enforcement. He commented that ABC's long-term goal is to have
each licensed facility inspected once every two years.
4:00:51 PM
MR. GRIFFIN, in response to Representative Guttenberg, replied
that license renewals are rarely protested by local community
government. He said:
When a license is protested by a local government, ...
there's a good chance that we will at least initiate
... proceedings against that license, perhaps to
revoke it. Sometimes those things get settled prior
to the actual revocation; [the licensees] correct the
problem that is the reason for the protest. But the
standard is, if a local governing body protests
renewal of a license, the board has to find that
protest to be arbitrary, capricious, and unreasonable.
MR. GRIFFIN estimated that, aside from protests stemming from
unpaid tax issues, the ABC receives a protest of license renewal
from a local government once every five or six years.
REPRESENTATIVE MEYER, in response to Representative LeDoux,
replied that he believed that if this bill is passed, people
would still be able to bring their own liquor to the lodges and
the lodge owners would still be able to offer the customers free
alcoholic beverages.
MR. GRIFFIN stated that this is an issue that should be
addressed because presently people are not allowed to bring
alcohol onto a licensed premise. He said, "I would leave that
to the discretion of the lodge owner, about whether people are
allowed to bring their alcohol. I don't see any big problem
with it.... We may need to make a provision similar to the
corkage language to address that." He noted that it can be
challenging for the clients to bring their own alcohol because
sometimes they have to travel through a dry village to get to
the lodge.
4:06:56 PM
CHAIR ANDERSON announced that public testimony will remain open.
He noted that Representative Rokeberg's staff brought an
amendment, which will be addressed at the next meeting.
4:08:50 PM
REPRESENTATIVE MEYER commented that Bob Kline from Brown Jug,
Inc. was not able to testify today, "and I know he wanted to. In
fact, this bill is basically their idea ... [Brown Jug is] one
of the larger distributors or wholesalers, and they're concerned
that they may be sending out the alcohol to areas that aren't
licensed to be selling this.... They will also help the ABC and
[the Department of Public Safety] as far as making sure that
these places are [legitimate]."
[HB 15 was held over.]
ADJOURNMENT
There being no further business before the committee, the House
Labor and Commerce Standing Committee meeting was adjourned at
4:10:22 PM.
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